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Author Topic: Photographer or Photoshopper?  (Read 3118 times)
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andyclist
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« on: April 24, 2008, 08:32:07 AM »

Whilst I consider myself a competant photographer, I am becomining increasingly frustrated by the ever increasing reliance on Photoshop techniques to produce top quality images.

it seems that nowadays, mediocre pictures can be turned into publication quality 'photographs' by a variety of post-processing techniques. Don't get me wrong, I'm the first person to change the levels, saturation and sharpen, but these don't change the fundamentals of the shot. I'm specifically talking about techniques that can't be easily replicated in a traditional darkroom.

So, I ask the question - when does a photo cease to become a photo and should more accurately be considered art?
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 09:49:53 AM »

Andy, this is a big question and I am not sure I can answer is, the reason for this is I am not sure any one can answer it. I have a set line in my head that defines a photograph and art. But this does not mean I am right!!!

Also you have to consider the ever growing branches of photography like HDR images, to me these move away from normal conventional photography. As the image is a built up of several images and is it not a one shot that captures a moment in time.
We are moving in to an age that almost every photograph we see is manipulated in some way or another. This has been the case in the media for some time now, but with the popularity of Photoshop and similar software we can all makes huge changes to our images in are own homes with relatively small PC power. So I don’t think just because an image have been processed in Photoshop it turn's it in to art (and I am sure most people would agree).

I think Art is more about the person making the statement than the item that is being labelled, plus the price of a photograph will be raised dramatically if it is called art.

Sorry I am not answering  your questions and to be honest I am sure I have just confused the issue even more. Grin

Cheers
lee
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jeffa
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2008, 12:13:49 PM »

Both and proud.

Your implication that photographers took "perfect" photos in the camera back in the film days is just totally unfounded.

A hell of a lot of the tools in photoshop are called what they are called because that is what the original darkroom techniques were called!

e.g.  Unsharp Masking, dodge, burn etc...

Unsharp masking is thought  to have been first used in Germany in the 1930s as a way of increasing the acutance, or apparent sharpness, of photographic images. The "unsharp" of the name derives from the fact that the technique uses a blurred, or "unsharp", positive to create a "mask" of the original image. The unsharped mask is then combined with the negative, creating the illusion that the resulting image is sharper than the original.

Dodging and burning are a technique used during the printing process to manipulate the exposure of a selected area(s) on a photographic print, deviating from the rest of the image's exposure. Dodging decreases the exposure for areas of the print that the photographer wishes to be lighter, while burning increases the exposure to areas of the print that he or she wishes to be darker. Any material with varying degrees of opacity may be used, as preferred, to cover and/or obscure the desired area for burning or dodging. One may use a transparency with text, designs, patterns, etc., a stencil, or a completely opaque material shaped according to the desired area of burning/dodging. Ansel Adams elevated dodging and burning to an art form. Many of his famous prints were manipulated in the darkroom with these two techniques. Adams wrote a comprehensive book on this very topic called The Print.

In the days of film it was very common to combine multiple exposures in the camera by re cocking the shutter without advancing the film.

Get with the plan, the world is changing, its the image that matters, use the tools to hand.  I guess you wouldn't suggest we all go back to pinhole cameras because lenses are evil? Or maybe you would?

Jeffa

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Issy
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2008, 02:17:21 PM »

Well you have to ask your self "does it really matter", everyone now changes their original image in some way (sharpen, saturation) so as long as the result is good then it is all a process to make images that people like and make then think.

I use to try and take images that I thought people would like, now I just take images and manipulate them how I want to and to my liking. **CENSORED** everyone else if the image makes you smile then it is worth the effort.

"Never let the battery go flat.."

Issy
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 02:32:47 PM by jeffa » Logged
jeffa
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 02:20:18 PM »

Please keep the forum family friendly Issy!

I know you used *'s but I think we all know what you meant!

Jeffa
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Lee
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 02:26:04 PM »

Well said jeff.......but back to the point

When you Wiki art you get this

"Art refers to a diverse range of human activities and artifacts, and may be used to cover all or any of the arts, including music, literature and other forms. It is most often used to refer specifically to the visual arts, including media such as painting, sculpture, and printmaking. However it can also be applied to forms of art that stimulate the other senses, such as music, an auditory art. Aesthetics is the branch of philosophy which considers art."

Nothing about photography, I think art is considered to be something that is old and has been around for a while. Or that the person who created it is dead  Roll Eyes So either wait a few hundred years for your images to turn in to art, or die young...... Huh
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 02:37:47 PM by jeffa » Logged
andyclist
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 03:17:45 PM »

All very interesting arguments, but I feel some of you have missed the point. I am not suggesting that the use of photoshop is evil, merely it is now possible to use failrly crude techniques in a powerful piece of software which results in a 'photo' that has little resemblence to the original.

Whereas this activity could and would be done by those with access to a darkroom, lightbox, the right equipment and correct chemicals, these people were and are enthusiasts. Now it seems that individuals with a passing interest in imaging and an expertise in computing are in danger of replacing the old skill of the photographer.

Who here would rather a few hours in front of a computer instead of a few hours trying to get the shot right from the camera in the first place?
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jeffa
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 03:43:38 PM »

I enjoy making images, I am not fussy about how.

Techniques change.  I see that as a good thing. New things to try. New things to buy!

If you wanted to build Stonehenge tomorrow would you drag the stones on a sled with a few thousand men, or use a crane and a lorry?

Whilst I accept that for the photographer, the journey is important, for the viewer the destination is all they have.

Jeffa
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andyclist
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 08:50:35 AM »

So I go back to my original point. When is a photograph no longer a photograph?
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2008, 09:34:47 AM »

When you use paint ? ha just trying to look at the funny side.......
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Nikon D3     Nikon 300mm f2.8
Nikon D70   Nikon 70-200mm f2.8
                 Nikon 17-35mm f2.8
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jeffa
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2008, 09:43:04 AM »

Wednesday?
 Wink
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John
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2008, 09:47:05 AM »

Andy sorry if this sounds a little blunt, "but does it really matter" the world in now inundated with photos as the hole photography sector has gone mad, millions are photos are now being uploaded to photo sites daily. So the chance that any of them will have a shelf life. Photos are now not thought of as they were years ago where they captured something different that was happening in a far off part of the world...or an historic moment. In years to come we will not be looking back at the photos taken in the 20th century in the same way, also there is some much manipulation that we don't know what we are seeing is really of not.

Just take the images you like and be happy, try to make the photography thing work for you and your photos will make you happy. Don't follow the crowd and make your own way.

John.
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tonyhall
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2010, 01:06:12 AM »

its not bad to use photoshop on photographs but when you see a photograph with a no editing. that requires real talent.
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